Comments on: Language of the Perpetual Poor http://frugaldad.com/2008/04/14/language-of-the-perpetual-poor/ Tips for living frugal while still having a life Sat, 20 Mar 2010 18:11:29 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: One Year Of Frugal Dad, A Look Back | Frugal Dad http://frugaldad.com/2008/04/14/language-of-the-perpetual-poor/comment-page-2/#comment-21563 One Year Of Frugal Dad, A Look Back | Frugal Dad Sun, 29 Mar 2009 21:43:05 +0000 http://frugaldad.com/2008/04/14/language-of-the-perpetual-poor/#comment-21563 [...] 14, 2008 - Language of the Perpetual Poor.  I took a lot of heat for this one.  Many people thought it was an attack on poor people.  [...]

[...] 14, 2008 – Language of the Perpetual Poor.  I took a lot of heat for this one.  Many people thought it was an attack on poor people.  [...]

]]> By: kentuckyliz http://frugaldad.com/2008/04/14/language-of-the-perpetual-poor/comment-page-2/#comment-20945 kentuckyliz Sun, 22 Mar 2009 22:55:11 +0000 http://frugaldad.com/2008/04/14/language-of-the-perpetual-poor/#comment-20945 "Rocket surgeon"--very funny! Alison Hicks has a good point: "We need to remind poor people they should have hope for enough. Without the hope, they will never try. The rules of money aren’t obvious when you’re poor. The things-that-work-for-you-when-you’re-poor don’t work when you have enough or more than enough. Becoming prosperous requires a major paradigm change. We need to let poor people know that. They face disappointment every day but many will come around if they hear it often." Actually there is an excellent book called Understanding Poverty (or Understanding the Framework of Poverty) by Ruby Payne. This is presented as a PD workshop for teachers, which I think is excellent. The rules of surviving as a poor person are different than as a middle class person. So what's the interior logic for the poor person? Payne explains this...and how it affects so many areas of life. It's important for schoolteachers to know, to not write of poor kids as trash from a trashy family (I've witnessed teachers saying this about children!)--but to learn how to teach the kids to see the two systems of thinking and operation, and if they want to ascend to the middle class, it takes an overhaul in thoughts and behaviors, and the teachers can help them with that. I work at a community college and try to help people with this paradigm shift. A college degree is not going to change your life and deliver a high paying job on a silver platter...if you don't quit thinking and acting poor. No employer would hire that if they could avoid it...because it causes problems in the workplace and is underproductive. There are those who choose to be poor because they are afraid of taking risks, and their family and friends might not love them any more if they "git above their raisin'." “Rocket surgeon”–very funny!

Alison Hicks has a good point: “We need to remind poor people they should have hope for enough. Without the hope, they will never try. The rules of money aren’t obvious when you’re poor. The things-that-work-for-you-when-you’re-poor don’t work when you have enough or more than enough. Becoming prosperous requires a major paradigm change. We need to let poor people know that. They face disappointment every day but many will come around if they hear it often.”

Actually there is an excellent book called Understanding Poverty (or Understanding the Framework of Poverty) by Ruby Payne. This is presented as a PD workshop for teachers, which I think is excellent. The rules of surviving as a poor person are different than as a middle class person. So what’s the interior logic for the poor person? Payne explains this…and how it affects so many areas of life.

It’s important for schoolteachers to know, to not write of poor kids as trash from a trashy family (I’ve witnessed teachers saying this about children!)–but to learn how to teach the kids to see the two systems of thinking and operation, and if they want to ascend to the middle class, it takes an overhaul in thoughts and behaviors, and the teachers can help them with that.

I work at a community college and try to help people with this paradigm shift. A college degree is not going to change your life and deliver a high paying job on a silver platter…if you don’t quit thinking and acting poor. No employer would hire that if they could avoid it…because it causes problems in the workplace and is underproductive.

There are those who choose to be poor because they are afraid of taking risks, and their family and friends might not love them any more if they “git above their raisin’.”

]]> By: Paddy Marusch http://frugaldad.com/2008/04/14/language-of-the-perpetual-poor/comment-page-2/#comment-17589 Paddy Marusch Sun, 08 Feb 2009 03:41:13 +0000 http://frugaldad.com/2008/04/14/language-of-the-perpetual-poor/#comment-17589 Excellent post & comments!!! Awhile back, I saw a money program in which a high school Math teacher was short of money & used the cash-advance high interest place...TWICE! This fellow had major debt from this place as well as his previous poor financial decisions. I don't know about you, but didn't we go to school to learn practical things that we'd use when we grew up, like critical thinking & commonsensible ways to create a good adult life for us & our families? For crying out loud, this guy is teaching our children! Also, when I was a kid, my parents mismanaged their money & then argued who was at fault when they had too much month at the end of their money...that taught me that I did not want to be like that. I learned through trial & error...I'm not wealthy, but I'm not poor & stressed either. I'm no rocket surgeon...so if I can do it, others can too! Sorry about the "when I was a kid..." but it is my history. Thanx again for the website & the post. Excellent post & comments!!! Awhile back, I saw a money program in which a high school Math teacher was short of money & used the cash-advance high interest place…TWICE! This fellow had major debt from this place as well as his previous poor financial decisions. I don’t know about you, but didn’t we go to school to learn practical things that we’d use when we grew up, like critical thinking & commonsensible ways to create a good adult life for us & our families? For crying out loud, this guy is teaching our children! Also, when I was a kid, my parents mismanaged their money & then argued who was at fault when they had too much month at the end of their money…that taught me that I did not want to be like that. I learned through trial & error…I’m not wealthy, but I’m not poor & stressed either. I’m no rocket surgeon…so if I can do it, others can too! Sorry about the “when I was a kid…” but it is my history. Thanx again for the website & the post.

]]> By: Homemade Laundry Detergent Not For Us | Frugal Dad http://frugaldad.com/2008/04/14/language-of-the-perpetual-poor/comment-page-2/#comment-15400 Homemade Laundry Detergent Not For Us | Frugal Dad Thu, 08 Jan 2009 11:01:20 +0000 http://frugaldad.com/2008/04/14/language-of-the-perpetual-poor/#comment-15400 [...] wonder how many people out there use frugality as a front for a perpetual poor attitude.  It is true that some people are simply afraid of success, so they consciously make bad [...]

[...] wonder how many people out there use frugality as a front for a perpetual poor attitude.  It is true that some people are simply afraid of success, so they consciously make bad [...]

]]> By: Brett http://frugaldad.com/2008/04/14/language-of-the-perpetual-poor/comment-page-2/#comment-15068 Brett Sat, 03 Jan 2009 22:23:15 +0000 http://frugaldad.com/2008/04/14/language-of-the-perpetual-poor/#comment-15068 Your examples remind me of several people I know. 1) He and his wife earn less than me and my wife, but they have a bigger house, three cars, ATV, and a boat. Most of it must be on credit because he could not get his house refinanced recently to take advantage of the super low rates. 2) She is going through a bankruptcy on $60K in various non-mortgage debt, My wife ran into her and she mentioned the $300 doll house she bought her 3yo for Christmas and the new coat she had that <i>only</i> cost $200. I really don't think that this lady has any real chance over building any wealth despite a good salary that even allows her to work from home. By the way, when anyone uses one of these lines on your, you should send them to <a href="http://carpefactum.typepad.com/my_weblog/2008/12/cease-and-desist-in-2009.html" rel="nofollow">this video of a counselor helping someone</a> with their issues. :) Your examples remind me of several people I know.
1) He and his wife earn less than me and my wife, but they have a bigger house, three cars, ATV, and a boat. Most of it must be on credit because he could not get his house refinanced recently to take advantage of the super low rates.
2) She is going through a bankruptcy on $60K in various non-mortgage debt, My wife ran into her and she mentioned the $300 doll house she bought her 3yo for Christmas and the new coat she had that only cost $200. I really don’t think that this lady has any real chance over building any wealth despite a good salary that even allows her to work from home.

By the way, when anyone uses one of these lines on your, you should send them to this video of a counselor helping someone with their issues. :)

]]> By: Troy http://frugaldad.com/2008/04/14/language-of-the-perpetual-poor/comment-page-2/#comment-14823 Troy Wed, 31 Dec 2008 00:36:42 +0000 http://frugaldad.com/2008/04/14/language-of-the-perpetual-poor/#comment-14823 This post is directed at the few of you who have suggested that the article was meant to make fun of people who don't have money. I think you are taking this a little too personally. I'm not going to get anecdotal about the topic: We can all cite stories that support our beliefs. However, I will tell you that having kids is, in fact, a luxury. I am not going to get into a philosophical or religious debate with anyone regarding that statement, but if you decide to have kids, you damn well better be able to provide for them. Above and beyond that, you have no room to complain. If you don't have "enough" money, you shouldn't have had the children. Yes, there are situations in which there was no choice; rape, for example. That is a very difficult personal choice to make for some, and if they decide to keep the child, that is what government assistance was meant for in the first place. No one is pointing a finger at those people and telling them they made a bad decision. It is the people who have opportunity and spurn it that this article is discussing. I have too many "rich" friends who have some guilty feeling for having money and feel compelled to defend anyone without it (as several of you have). Well, I have money and I worked extremely hard for it and made a lot of sacrifices - like not having children right now. My wife and I are finally in a financial position to have children AND be able to provide the kind of life we want them to have. That is a decision we made. If you made a different one, that is fine. But don't think the system is unjust simply because it doesn't suit your choices. This post is directed at the few of you who have suggested that the article was meant to make fun of people who don’t have money. I think you are taking this a little too personally. I’m not going to get anecdotal about the topic: We can all cite stories that support our beliefs. However, I will tell you that having kids is, in fact, a luxury. I am not going to get into a philosophical or religious debate with anyone regarding that statement, but if you decide to have kids, you damn well better be able to provide for them. Above and beyond that, you have no room to complain. If you don’t have “enough” money, you shouldn’t have had the children. Yes, there are situations in which there was no choice; rape, for example. That is a very difficult personal choice to make for some, and if they decide to keep the child, that is what government assistance was meant for in the first place. No one is pointing a finger at those people and telling them they made a bad decision. It is the people who have opportunity and spurn it that this article is discussing.

I have too many “rich” friends who have some guilty feeling for having money and feel compelled to defend anyone without it (as several of you have). Well, I have money and I worked extremely hard for it and made a lot of sacrifices – like not having children right now. My wife and I are finally in a financial position to have children AND be able to provide the kind of life we want them to have. That is a decision we made. If you made a different one, that is fine. But don’t think the system is unjust simply because it doesn’t suit your choices.

]]> By: Alison Hicks http://frugaldad.com/2008/04/14/language-of-the-perpetual-poor/comment-page-2/#comment-10853 Alison Hicks Fri, 31 Oct 2008 14:47:17 +0000 http://frugaldad.com/2008/04/14/language-of-the-perpetual-poor/#comment-10853 I think we SHOULD remind others that living within their means is what they should be striving for. It is easy to forget that, when you don't have enough for basics. One of my parents was very frugal, so much so it turned me off from scrimping. As an adult, ny health went bad on me in my 20s, my husband of 15 years chose drug abuse in my 30s so I divorced, and a big health problem emerged in my 40's. Each time my financial life was decimated. For years I've struggled back to physical and financial health. Today I'm doing well. But through all the problems I forgot the concept of living within my means. I honestly forgot that should be a goal. I never had enough to afford the basics. Any budget I made on paper never allowed for clothes or medical care, yet somehow I did manage those things. We need to remind poor people they should have hope for enough. Without the hope, they will never try. The rules of money aren't obvious when you're poor. The things-that-work-for-you-when-you're-poor don't work when you have enough or more than enough. Becoming prosperous requires a major paradigm change. We need to let poor people know that. They face disappointment every day but many will come around if they hear it often. I think we SHOULD remind others that living within their means is what they should be striving for. It is easy to forget that, when you don’t have enough for basics. One of my parents was very frugal, so much so it turned me off from scrimping. As an adult, ny health went bad on me in my 20s, my husband of 15 years chose drug abuse in my 30s so I divorced, and a big health problem emerged in my 40’s. Each time my financial life was decimated. For years I’ve struggled back to physical and financial health. Today I’m doing well. But through all the problems I forgot the concept of living within my means. I honestly forgot that should be a goal. I never had enough to afford the basics. Any budget I made on paper never allowed for clothes or medical care, yet somehow I did manage those things. We need to remind poor people they should have hope for enough. Without the hope, they will never try. The rules of money aren’t obvious when you’re poor. The things-that-work-for-you-when-you’re-poor don’t work when you have enough or more than enough. Becoming prosperous requires a major paradigm change. We need to let poor people know that. They face disappointment every day but many will come around if they hear it often.

]]> By: dany http://frugaldad.com/2008/04/14/language-of-the-perpetual-poor/comment-page-2/#comment-6427 dany Mon, 08 Sep 2008 14:08:52 +0000 http://frugaldad.com/2008/04/14/language-of-the-perpetual-poor/#comment-6427 wow, this is amazing because i work at a convenience store and im alway amazed at how much money people spend on lottery tickets looking to make it big. But then I tell em the odds of winning which is you have a better chance of getting hit by lightning 5 times than winning the lottery, sorry but to me thats a losers game, and I try to explain to them to save and invest a portion of all their income, but they only say why should I you cant take it with you when you die. Which I reply well what's gonna happen when you get old and social security isn't enough, are u gonna go back to work at 65, no thanks im cool with that. And what about their children I ask, dont you want to see your children prosperous in the future and leave a legacy and its like talking to a wall. A little bit saved and invested every paycheck with an interest bearing account equals a hefty sum over time. Plus if you manage to save enough to start a buis, the money saved will accelerate and so will your net worth. Its really simple to become wealthy, you just need a plan first and stick to it every time you get money, and try to hold onto every penny possibly, and try not to spend on stupid things you want, but rather things you need, but always pay yourself first. Thats my 2 cents on that. wow, this is amazing because i work at a convenience store and im alway amazed at how much money people spend on lottery tickets looking to make it big. But then I tell em the odds of winning which is you have a better chance of getting hit by lightning 5 times than winning the lottery, sorry but to me thats a losers game, and I try to explain to them to save and invest a portion of all their income, but they only say why should I you cant take it with you when you die. Which I reply well what’s gonna happen when you get old and social security isn’t enough, are u gonna go back to work at 65, no thanks im cool with that. And what about their children I ask, dont you want to see your children prosperous in the future and leave a legacy and its like talking to a wall. A little bit saved and invested every paycheck with an interest bearing account equals a hefty sum over time. Plus if you manage to save enough to start a buis, the money saved will accelerate and so will your net worth. Its really simple to become wealthy, you just need a plan first and stick to it every time you get money, and try to hold onto every penny possibly, and try not to spend on stupid things you want, but rather things you need, but always pay yourself first. Thats my 2 cents on that.

]]> By: Lessons from a Straight Road | The Wisdom Journal http://frugaldad.com/2008/04/14/language-of-the-perpetual-poor/comment-page-2/#comment-5329 Lessons from a Straight Road | The Wisdom Journal Fri, 01 Aug 2008 05:02:42 +0000 http://frugaldad.com/2008/04/14/language-of-the-perpetual-poor/#comment-5329 [...] a life of intention. Everything that happens, does so because you made it happen. Far too often we poor mouth and complain that our lives are out of our control. But when we really look deep inside ourselves, [...]

[...] a life of intention. Everything that happens, does so because you made it happen. Far too often we poor mouth and complain that our lives are out of our control. But when we really look deep inside ourselves, [...]

]]> By: Smart Spending http://frugaldad.com/2008/04/14/language-of-the-perpetual-poor/comment-page-2/#comment-2770 Smart Spending Thu, 29 May 2008 02:08:37 +0000 http://frugaldad.com/2008/04/14/language-of-the-perpetual-poor/#comment-2770 <strong>'It's only $10 a month': Excuses that keep you from saving...</strong> Pinyo at Moolanomy has a friend who wants to improve her financial well-being, but she continues to shoot herself in the foot. "Somehow, she always comes up with some lame excuses when it comes to money," Pinyo writes. He calls them the "words of th...

‘It’s only $10 a month’: Excuses that keep you from saving…

Pinyo at Moolanomy has a friend who wants to improve her financial well-being, but she continues to shoot herself in the foot. “Somehow, she always comes up with some lame excuses when it comes to money,” Pinyo writes. He calls them the “words of th…

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