The Dave Ramsey Baby Steps
It seems a bit like a rite of passage for every personal finance writer to share their opinion of Dave Ramsey. That alone speaks volumes about Ramsey’s reach in the personal finance sector, but not all of the reviews have been glowing. I personally consider his book, The Total Money Makeover, one of my all-time top three favorite personal finance reads. The book is not overly technical, and is written with an inspirational, “can-do” tone. It is hard to argue with his success in motivating people to finally pay attention to their finances.
Is it time for Ramsey to Update His Plan?
Just last week Jennifer wrote about her issues with Dave Ramsey’s plan in, Falling Off the Dave Ramsey Diet. I have my own issues with some of the numbers, but basically agree with the concept of following “baby steps” towards financial freedom. Here is a look at the original baby steps, as they appear on Dave Ramsey’s website:
- 1,000 to start an Emergency Fund
- Pay off all debt using the Debt Snowball
- 3 to 6 months of expenses in savings
- Invest 15% of household income into Roth IRAs and pre-tax retirement
- College funding for children
- Pay off home early
- Build wealth and give! Invest in mutual funds and real estate.
It’s hard to argue with the simplicity of Dave Ramsey’s approach, however I have found by tweaking a few of the baby steps, and rearranging them slightly, the plan has worked well for our family. We tried the original baby steps as written several times, but struggled to reach beyond baby step 2. It didn’t take much of an emergency for us to blow through the $1,000 baby emergency fund, and large emergencies still required us to use credit cards to cover. We would restart our savings plan from $0, and kicked ourselves for turning to credit cards again. This also made us hesitant to get rid of credit cards entirely because it was our only safety net against a complete financial meltdown. Here is a look at the approach my family has taken.
The Baby Steps, Frugal Dad Style
1. Cut up all but one credit card. This card should have the highest limit, and lowest interest rate, and should only be used for genuine emergencies. The older the card the better, as keeping your oldest trade line active will improve your FICO score. I recommend removing if from your wallet and stashing it in a sock drawer at home. Do carry the card with you on vacations or extended trips, but again, only use it in an emergency.
2. Six months of expenses in an emergency fund. As I mentioned above, $1,000 just didn’t provide enough safety net for our family. A dead transmission, busted hot water heater, or serious medical emergency could easily wipe out your entire emergency savings, forcing you to turn to credit cards to keep your head above water. This is counterproductive. Instead, we are working to save a full six months of expenses in an emergency fund. Three months may be enough for some families, but since we live on just one income we have little to fall back on. A shaky job market, or general angst over the broader economy may influence the amount you decide to save.
3. Cut up the last (emergency) credit card. With six months of savings in place you are “self-insured” against emergencies and can cut up your last credit card. If you have a credit card with a $10,000 limit, but now have $10,000 in savings, you have essentially replaced the need for an emergency credit card by building your own personal line of credit.
4. Implement the debt snowball. For this step, we follow Dave Ramsey’s plan as written. Pay off debts smallest to largest, regardless of the interest rate. Some will argue this is bad math – higher interest rate cards should go first. Well, we’ve already experienced the momentum Dave Ramsey writes about by paying off several small debts, quickly. These quick wins motivate us to keep going. If you prefer to pay off high-interest cards first, do it. It’s really not worth getting heartburn over. The point is to get busy getting out of debt, one way or another. Get a part time job, snowflake every single amount you can find, have a yard sale, look for “wasted money” in your budget, and make getting out of debt a top priority. Whatever you do, don’t give up! There will be many obstacles in your path to debt freedom, but clearing each one will make it that much sweeter when you reach the finish line.
4a. Invest in your retirement plan up to an employer match. This step should be happening at the same time you are working baby step 4, so I have labeled it step 4a. If your employer offers a match of 401(k) contributions, invest in the minimum percentage to receive that match. Three or four percent of your income isn’t going to make or break your get-out-of-debt plan, and passing up “free” money from your employer just doesn’t make much sense, financially. You’ll also benefit from the added months of compounding growth.
4b. If your employer doesn’t offer a match, skip the 401(k), open a Roth IRA and contribute 3% of your income. The earnings grow tax free! Many people will say it is impossible to save and get out of debt at the same time. True, you divert some financial resources that could be used to pay down debt, but by getting into the habit of saving you are setting yourself up for a much brighter financial future.
5. Max Roth IRA contributions. Now that you are debt free, use the money you were spending to pay off debts to fully fund Roth IRA contributions for you and your spouse. Check the IRS website for maximum contribution amounts and eligibility information. Again, if your employer offers to match 401(k) contributions, continue making the minimum contribution required to get the match. With any amount above that, fund Roth IRAs.
6. Save for kid’s college. With credit card debt behind you, and retirement savings on track, now is the time to focus on saving for your children’s education. Many people, myself included, feel compelled to move this step up in the process because we care so much about our children’s future. However, unless we want to become a burden to our kids in retirement, it is important to get our own finances in order before concentrating on saving for children. We are currently investing gifts and the occasional “found” money in 529 College Saving Plans for both our kids, and will ramp up these contributions when the previous baby steps are complete.
6a. Save for non-educational expenses for kids. In addition to college savings, we have also invested a small amount in single stocks for our kids, allowing them to help in the selection process and in monitoring the stock’s performance. My son now owns a few shares of McDonalds and my daughter owns shares of Disney. Both were purchased with birthday money from relatives. I don’t think they will ever become rich with their investments, but it has sparked an interest in saving and investing. We also set up a sub-account at ING in our names, but labeled for each of our kids, and contribute $50 a month or so for expenses we know are coming down the road: orthodontics, prom dresses, cars, etc.
7. Pay off the mortgage early. Probably the most controversial of Dave Ramsey’s baby steps, this one causes math geeks to go into hysteria! And this hysteria runs even higher in periods of super-low interest rates. Trying to justify to a financial guru paying off a mortgage early at 5.5% versus investing in the market is like trying to pull teeth from a hippopotamus – it just isn’t going to happen! I generally like the idea because one day I hope to “retire” early, and to do that I’ll need to eliminate as many of my monthly expenses as possible. Without a mortgage, it is quite possible for passive income streams to cover our basic expenses, and we could live off a much-reduced salary or income from freelance jobs.
8. Build non-retirement wealth. The problem with only investing inside retirement accounts is that it is nearly impossible to get to your money before age 60. What if I don’t plan on working until age 60? Short of paying penalties, or turning to a 72t distribution (which is based on life expectancy and is nearly impossible to change or stop), there isn’t much choice other than waiting for the magical retirement age to arrive. When we reach this step I plan to invest money above and beyond retirement savings in low-cost, low-turnover index mutual funds such as the Vanguard Total Stock Market Index fund and the Vanguard International Index Fund. Both offer incredibly low expenses, and with low turnover, do not produce high capital gains taxes at the end of the year. It might also make sense to investigate other types of financial products such as low-cost annuities, or bond funds to hedge against fluctuations in the equities market. These funds may then be tapped early to allow for a comfortable lifestyle between an early retirement and the minimum age to access funds from retirement accounts.
I’ll wrap this up by saying that while I am a fan of Dave Ramsey and other financial advisors, no one should blindly follow advice they read in a book, on a blog, or on television (nope, not even on Frugal Dad!). I’ve shared with you what works for our family, but take time to investigate the different options yourself, and implement the best financial plan for you and yours. The great thing about finances is there is rarely only one way to do something, but opinions abound when it comes to money matters so take each one with a grain of salt.
Great plan, Jason. Dave Ramsey has a lot of great ideas, but as you mentioned, it’s important to find what works best for your situation.
The only thing I would add in step 3 is if you decide to cut up that last credit card, leave the line of credit open, as it will be good for your credit score to have established credit. This will make it easier to get a mortgage or a car loan at favorable rates.
I’m not in debt, so I don’t follow the Dave Ramsey plan really at all.
My thoughts on the mortgage thing are that if you invest the money sensibly instead of paying extra on the mortgage, when you want/are able to retire early, you can simply withdraw the remaining mortgage amount from your investments.
This is what I’m doing and partly because it’s psychologically more fun to see an investment account go up, than a mortgage inch down slowly.
What a fantastic synopsis. Great, GREAT job showing people how to adjust The Dave Ramsey Plan to their own personal financial situation.
Too many times we DO blindly follow someone because they’re the first one we heard talk about the subject, or we like them, or a friend recommended them. Those are all good reasons, but we still need to be willing to cherry pick the ideas, tips, and techniques that will work in our own personal situations.
Thanks for the link!
Ron
On investing versus early mortgage payments, the idea for me is to invest at a rate better than 5.5% and then when I have enough in there to pay off the mortgage in one swoop, I’ll do that.
Why would anyone want to take out a car loan after working so hard to get out of debt?
Don’t leave the line of credit open, it will just tempt you to borrow. The credit score is only good for getting into more debt (and maybe car insurance rates). But both of those can be done without a credit score.
Manual underwriting for mortgages, and good old face to face ask the insurance company if you are getting the best rate? If not, why not? If it’s your 0 credit score, but you can show that you pay everything on time and have no prior accidents you should be able to get the best rates.
Credit scores are what banks want you to think need to be high so you will continue to borrow money from them and pay them interest. Or as Dave says “it’s an I LOVE debt score.”
@Trent: I like your plan! This way you are taking advantage of compounding growth and using it to help you pay off your mortgage.
@Ramsey Fan: I would generally agree with your comments, but be careful not to intentionally harm your FICO score in the name of anti-FICO rebellion. It could end up costing you more in the form of higher rates for the things you mention (if manual underwriting is not an option). I am indifferent when it comes to FICO – I don’t obsess over the actual number, but I don’t set out to harm it, either.
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Thanks for this great common sense post. I know a lot of people just dismiss ramsey out of hand because they don’t agree with one or two of his points, when his whole theory is sound on the whole.
Tailor it to your needs, stay out of debt, save, give and you’ll be alright!
Great post. I agree, Dave has some great ideas that need to be applied to your situation. I used Dave’s plan years ago to get out of debt, but now that I’m out, I focus on other things.
I’m a Dave Ramsey fan because following his plan has helped me become debt free. I think we should be careful making too many adjustments to the baby steps. After all, Dave has worked with a number of people very successfully over the years. If you just listen to his show on Fridays, you will hear several people that achieved freedom from debt following the baby steps.
Another danger is that some might see this as license to modify the steps to the point that they are useless or even detrimental to their overall financial well-being. I don’t think Dave would be so successful if his plan didn’t work. I like the idea that if you do what rich people do, then you are more likely to get rich yourself. Dave has a pretty decent net worth that gives him quite a bit of credibility in my eyes.
Having said this, I don’t believe in blindly following any plan. Everyone should apply commonsense to their situation. For instance, I agree that a $1,000 emergency fund may not be enough for some. However, I still believe that a baby emergency fund of $1,500 to $2,000 is adequate for most people assuming you are going to intensely pursue paying off your debt in 12-18 months.
I think it is important to recognize the value the baby steps in their original form. They aren’t written in stone, but any change to the plan should be well-founded.
Yes, thanks very much for this post. I’ve seen other references to Ramsey on your site and just caught his show for the first time this week. I’ve watched three or four episode and am very inspired. (And have been cutting my expenses down to practically nothing this week!)
In general, I’ve been improving my finances throughout the past year on a plan roughly comparable to Ramsey’s baby steps. I was upside-down on a piece of property I owned out of state and had to dig the hole deeper (by increasing my credit-card debt) in order to get out from under it. But, I was thankfully able to sell the property earlier this year and have been able to apply the money I had been using for the mortgage payment to pay down my debt, and it is feeling great!
The one adjustment that I have found is working for me is that I have found saving while getting out of debt to be a great motivator. I am in my mid-thirties and my job provides a pension, but I had not saved anything toward retirement until last year, when I started contributing to a deferred compensation plan offered through my employer. Even with the topsy-turvieness of the market, I’ve enjoyed watching my retirement balance creep up with every paycheck. (Sometimes it helps to have an anticipated retirement date just to make it through the week!)
Since I’m maxing out at the allowable tax-exempt amount, while paying a considerable amount on my credit card balances each month at the same time, it means so much to me to know that I am building a secure retirement and that I’m working a plan to get myself ahead rather than only combatting the old foe of credit cards without building a strong footing to move ahead.
Great post! Dave’s philosophy works – everyone’s personal situations on how “gazelle” they wanna get is individual, and that’s OK!
On a side question (I always have one when I read something you write). Do you have any personal recommendations on books for personal investments for dummies (definitions of all options available – stocks, bonds, mutual funds, Roth-IRA)? You mentioned you let your kids pick out their own stocks. Are you just really good with that, or did you learn somewhere? Since this is a step in Dave’s program, I need to educate myself so when I’m there I can hit the ground running! If you have a referral link I can use to purchase it that would be even better!!
Thanks for all the great content!
@Andrea: Actually, I am horrible at single-stock picking, and those two stocks are the only single stocks my household owns. I chose those primarily because they were places my kids were interested in, and it is easy to explain how more DVD or hamburger sales help their stock. Beyond that it is too complex even for me!
I opt to invest in mutual funds, primarily stock index mutual funds such as Vanguard’s Total Market Stock Index fund and international fund. I just don’t have enough time to thoroughly research individual companies, so I opt for maximum diversity.
If you are interested in learning more about investing from Dave Ramsey’s perspective, his book Financial Peace provides some good investment advice (in a little more detail than Total Money Makeover). The Boggleheads Guide to Investing is also a great primer on investing concepts, as is The Lazy Person’s Guide to Investing.
Instead of trying to squeeze in affiliate links here, you can always follow my Amazon.com banner in the sidebar to do your shopping. Thanks for your question – and let me know if you decide to give these books a read.
I really love your idea for getting kids involved in investing early. Such a smart idea and a great way to begin teaching them about managing their money.
I love your #8. Retirement accounts are fab, but that money is *locked up* for the most part. A healthy balance is needed, especially for those anticipating early retirement.
“It didn’t take much of an emergency for us to blow through the $1,000 baby emergency fund”
Know that one, our emergency fund went up and down almost in the same month. Best advice I heard was to go 50/50. Fifty percent of your savings (reduction in your cost of living due to frugal living) should go to the debt snowball and fifty percent to savings.
[...] The Dave Ramsey Baby Steps: Everybody’s a Critic from Frugal Dad [...]
It’s wonderful that someone pointed out how to adapt the DR plan. My main beef with DR is that the baby steps are nearly TOO simplistic, and that people generalize his advice and follow it as religion. Although, truth be known, I’m not adding Total Money Makeover to my library any time soon.
I think that point 4b. needs a caveat. I personally don’t think that it’s better to fund an IRA if the interest rate on debt is greater than 10% or so. If it’s less than that, then by all means, fund away. Many people complain about Ramsey’s plan not being mathematically the best way to go, and if you’re spending more in interest than you are earning in interest then something is wrong with the plan.
I do agree that you should fund your 401k to the company match, because in many cases this is an immediate 50%-200% return on your money.
Great plan except for the very first one. If you’re depending on a credit card for your ’small’ emergency fund, realize that the card company can reduce your available credit at any time. Assuming that the card was empty, it would be a bad time to find that you needed to use it and the limit had just been reduced to $300.
This has happened to me a couple of times on empty cards that were never/hardly used. I’d still keep $1000 in available LIQUID funds for the little emergency fund.
Thank you for this post.
My wife and I had the same problem with the $1000 emergency fund. We examined our emergencies historically by looking through repair bills and bank statements and saw that most of the times we really needed money it would have wiped out that fund and we would have needed to start saving up again and not be ready if something else hit.
From that, we decided on $3000 as an initial emergency fund.
We are also a one income family with me as the stay at home parent. With only one regular wage earner, a family’s options are a more limited. This is by no means a major hindrance, it just requires different planning.
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[...] Frugal Dad from Frugal Dad presents The Dave Ramsey Babysteps: Everybody’s a Critic. [...]
I just recently wrote an article discussing my issues with dave ramsey’s plan, from a recent college grads point of view. I agree with most of your points. Good post!
I think alot of people have an issue with #3
People love spending other people money, not thinking it will have an affect on their personal life.
You have people with 5K in the bank and scared to use it toward debt
good article. I’d add 2 things to think about.
1. I have my baby emergency fund of $1000 in a savings account. I have my serious emergency fund (3 months of salary) in a Roth IRA Money Market account. Early withdrawals of Roth principal are penalty-free and it forces to me seriously define what an emergency is. That said, I’m single with no dependents so my emergencies tend to stay under $1000.
2. I think the best thing you can do for kids is find some way to get them a job. A kid with income can open a Roth and getting a couple of grand in early can be HUGE. This is very specific advice but if your kid(s) ever get a paid acting/modelling gig when they are very little that can really be an easy way to fund a Roth. Imagine maxing a Roth at age 3. Check my math but with 9% returns that’s a million at 65. Now, you guys can figure out how to explain to a 19 YO that they shouldn’t touch their $20k in the roth to buy that totally awesome car.
I’m going to mostly stick to Dave’s plan. Yours really wouldn’t work well for my situation. I have so much in monthly debt obligation, that it would take me forever to save 3-6 months emergency funds before even starting to attack my debt.
At least by attacking my debt earlier, I can drop my monthly obligations (so I can make adjustments if a big problem arises)… and still have $1,000 to hold me over for smaller emergencies.
It would likely take me years to get to 3-6 months salary before I could attempt to snowball my debt (My debt would decrease in this time, but much slower) and the whole process would likely take me much longer than if I saved $1000 then moved on to snowballing my debt.
The only thing I’d likely alter is staying strict to the pay lowest balance first. If I have a $4k debt at 5% and a 5k debt at 29%. I think I’d like to take out the 29% first, even though it’s a higher balance. I may also consider other things like my obligation. If I have a 100/month obligation at 5k, but a $200/month obligation on 6k — I might want to get rid of the $200 obligation first, to make sure I have more flexbility if I need that extra money in a given month.
I’m coming to the party late, but most of the critiques I see of DR are by people who don’t need his advice. People like me do need to follow his plan. I’m a compulsive overspender (and consequently, debtor). I’m finally on the baby steps.
I agree that a $1,000 emergency fund really isn’t that much. It might have gone a lot further ten or fifteen years ago when he started his ministry. However, I believe the reason it’s like that is that people like me would lose motivation too quickly trying to save up the whole six-months amount first.
Because it’s going to take us longer than we’d like to pay off all debt, I’m putting the remainder of our EF as a “debt” in the debt snowball after credit cards but before my law school debt.
[...] have been a member of the Dave Ramsey Total Money Makeover forums for over two years now, and in that time I’ve made several [...]
Sorry but I don’t agree with keeping a credit card for genuine emergencies. We kept one (and did get out of all debt) but gradually got back into debt. We read Dave’s book, attended FPU and decided Dave was right. We needed to have an emergency fund not a credit card. We’re out of debt again and this time by God’s grace and Dave’s wisdom, we hope to stay that way.
Mary I agree, I’ve switched (pretty much anyways) over to cash. And there is nothing like cash in the bank. My sister in law while trying to get out of debt still runs everything through her HELC and I keep saying she´d spend less if she spent cash.
[...] is represented by $1,000 in a savings account. This first $1,000 in savings is the first of seven financial baby steps recommended by Ramsey, but over the years of putting his plan in action we’ve found this [...]
[...] Dave Ramsey, the popular radio and television talk show host, advocates putting aside 15% of your income towards retirement. Using our last example, that would be $7,500 a year on a $50,000 income, or $625 a month. Dropping $625 a month across your 401(k) and maybe a Roth IRA seems like a good idea, but it will be hard to pull off if you have an over-sized mortgage, credit card debt, or a couple car loans. That’s why Ramsey advises listeners to get out of debt and save a cash emergency fund first. [...]
Interesting blog. I agree people should never follow any “plan” without adapting it to their needs first. Ramsey’s “baby-steps,” (at least steps 1-3) are certainly very logical; but then, there is really only one way to pay off debt: PAYING IT OFF. The size of the emergency fund, of course, depends on each family’s circumstances. I don’t feel comfortable unless I have a 12-month em. fund (including Cobra payments) even though I enjoy high job security. Steps 4-6 make sense as well, but the order is not that important. I paid off my mortgage before really turbocharging my retirement savings (while my friends lost their money in tech stocks) and would have done so even if I had known about Dave Ramsey then. I also think that saving 15% for retirement is not enough. Step 7 (”build wealth and give”) is more an afterthought than any real “step,” and Ramsey’s investment advice is generic (”a good growth-stock mutual fund”) and flawed. Assuming the stock market returns 12% on average, he repeatedly tells people to take out 8% of their retirement funds annually. That is TWICE as much as anyone else recommends. Anyone following that “advice,” especially in this market, would definitely outlive his money. People seeking investment advice should read Money Magazine or Kiplinger or perhaps this blog.:-) Anyone knowing his way around the 72t distribution is more sophisticated than the average investor.:-)
I’m surprised that almost everyone here seems ready to cut up his credit cards; I think Ramsey’s take on credit cards is illogical. Calling everyone who’s using a credit card “stupid,” is stupid. Sure, people with $30k cc debt and those who feel “out of control” around them need to cut up their cards, but people who pay off the balance every month can obviously handle them. I understand that it is possible to get by without credit and a good FICO score, but why make life more difficult than it has to be?! After all, even with the best intentions of living debt-free forever, there may come a time a loan is necessary.
However, pointing out shortcomings in Ramsey’s approach does not mean that I don’t appreciate the man. Ramsey’s real strength is not the baby steps or their exact order; his strength is the enthusiastic support he provides to people hopelessly mired in debt. He acknowledges their struggle, gives them a “community,” and even provides a celebration if they succeed (debt-free scream). That is what draws people to his show. His compassion is quite apparent, and I believe he does change lives. Support communities for people who embrace debt-free living and frugality have always existed, and they are important. I was once inspired by the book “Your Money or Your Life” (by Robin and Dominguez), but I have never seen a champion of debt-free living like Dave Ramsey. In that respect he’s my kindred spirit, and I am thrilled that he is making this concept cool. He helps changing the attitude toward debt in this country, and that is definitely worth something!
IndianaTeacher,
See, it goes to show how everyone’s circumstances are different. My wife and I got into a real hole after she had lost her job and was pregnant with our son. She was out of work for nearly a year (people aren’t eager to hire a pregnant woman). Our finances were devasted. We racked up $45k in debt (all consumer debt) — about $30k of that in credit cards. We were barely getting by.
When she finally returned to work, our debt obligation was so high, we barely had enough to cover costs. I sold a bunch of stuff and got a $1000 emergency fund — which came in handy, because I soon needed to do car repairs, then later I owed taxes.
We currently only have $1500 in saving, which feels good. For us to save a years expenses would take us a 3 years! I’m not going to wait that long to get out of debt.
In the last year, since we started paying down debt (and cutting up our cards), we’ve paid of over $11k in debt — about 25% of our peak balance. We’ve paid of one medical bill and one credit card completely and have not incurred any additional debt.
I think Ramsey helped a lot with giving some practical advice and motivation.
My goal is to have both my cars paid off in the next year — which would, alone, reduce our monthly obligations by a minimum of $420/mo.
I definitely disagree with Ramsey about a few things. I will keep a credit card when our finances are better. I do want to keep a good FICO. I also think some debt is ok (mortgage and education).
You write, “For us to save a year’s expenses would take us a 3 years! I’m not going to wait that long to get out of debt.” No, I wouldn’t either until the debt was gone, and I didn’t until my house was paid off. (Luckily, I never had too much debt to begin with. My parents paid for most of my education, and in Grad. school I worked as a Graduate Teaching Fellow and was able to get my Masters without debt as well.) I was just saying that I don’t feel comfortable with less in savings, not that everyone should set that much money aside. I’m sure the fact that I’m a single parent (widowed) and the major source of income also means that I need to have more savings than a two-income family. It seems you have done really well paying off debt, and I’m sure you will reach your goals. You seem pretty savvy when it comes to money, and you set goals – which means you’re half-way there. Well, it’s always nice to meet the real people behind those user names. You have a great blog here. I’ll visit from time to time, and perhaps we’ll talk on twitter. (I follow your messages there.)
I have to disagree with these steps. It seems to me that if you are having to keep using ALL of your emergency fund and dip into credit cards, then you have the worst luck in the world, or as Dave says, you really dont have emergencies, you just use it as an excuse to spend. I mean really, how many times have you had an emergency that cost you over a $1,000 and then another RIGHT after that before you could build back up your fund?
The 2nd step that is REALLY out of order is the debt snowball. The reason Dave says to do this number 2 to save you ALOT of money on intrest. The sooner you do this, the less you pay off. I know I would rather pay less than more.
To sum this all up, I guess if you feel the plan works well for you, then go for it. “different strokes, for different folks.” However, although I agree with this author regarding being careful taking advice from certain sources, Dave said it right when he said, “Dont take advice from broke people! Now I am not saying this author is broke, but I would rather take advice from a proven millionaire and financial genious, then somebody that has a little extra time to post this….
[...] and the borrower–not a good relationship to have with a family member or friend. Like Dave Ramsey says, “Thanksgiving dinner just doesn’t taste the [...]