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	<title>Comments on: Pay Off Mortgage Early?</title>
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	<description>Tips for living frugal while still having a life</description>
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		<title>By: Stick With Stocks Or Pay Off The Mortgage? &#124; Frugal Dad</title>
		<link>http://frugaldad.com/2009/02/24/should-i-pay-off-my-mortgage/comment-page-3/#comment-39081</link>
		<dc:creator>Stick With Stocks Or Pay Off The Mortgage? &#124; Frugal Dad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 09:01:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frugaldad.com/?p=1810#comment-39081</guid>
		<description>[...] assumptions about the world of finance. Maybe it doesn&#8217;t make since to keep a mortgage. Maybe paying off a mortgage early, and living debt free, is the ultimate hedge against what the future might hold. Maybe renting [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] assumptions about the world of finance. Maybe it doesn&#8217;t make since to keep a mortgage. Maybe paying off a mortgage early, and living <a href="http://frugaldad.com/recommends/debtgoal" style="" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmouseover="self.status='http://debtgoal.com';return true;" onmouseout="self.status=''">debt free</a>, is the ultimate hedge against what the future might hold. Maybe renting [...]</p>
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		<title>By: woodlake</title>
		<link>http://frugaldad.com/2009/02/24/should-i-pay-off-my-mortgage/comment-page-3/#comment-39013</link>
		<dc:creator>woodlake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Mar 2010 17:28:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frugaldad.com/?p=1810#comment-39013</guid>
		<description>I ran across this article because I just paid off my mortgage and was searching on what to do with my monthly income now.  

My view is that everyone needs to consider their own personal financial situation and risk tolerance when making the decision about paying off their mortgage.  People have made good points about paying off other debts first, fully funding retirement plans and emergency funds, and diversification. 

I made the choice to pay off my mortgage because I&#039;d done all that, and was left with what I call &quot;the big what if?&quot;.  I&#039;m a 42 year old single woman and have only myself and my earning ability to rely on.  Yeah, I&#039;m making good money now, but that&#039;s not guaranteed in the future.  What if I&#039;m layed off and can&#039;t find another well-paying job - or any job! - for a long time?  What if something happens to my health and I can&#039;t continue working like this?  What if I burn out and need or want to take a less demanding, lower paying, maybe part time job?  What if the thought of working until I&#039;m 67 makes me want to scream and I want to retire early?

It made the most sense to me to kill the mortgage so I wouldn&#039;t have to worry about a monthly payment should something bad happen.  And because now is when I&#039;m making a good salary and bonus with no mortgage payment every month, my savings is increasing every month in leaps and bounds and I have a lot of investment options with plenty of time before retirement to build up an even bigger nest egg than is in my 401(k). I also now have the freedom to consider alternate careers in the future.  

The peace of mind, though, that&#039;s what is priceless to me.  I will never have to pay someone else to have a home (except the taxman!), and all my net income is mine to do with what I want.  ALL of it.  Debt-free is a beautiful thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I ran across this article because I just paid off my mortgage and was searching on what to do with my monthly income now.  </p>
<p>My view is that everyone needs to consider their own personal financial situation and risk tolerance when making the decision about paying off their mortgage.  People have made good points about paying off other debts first, fully funding retirement plans and emergency funds, and diversification. </p>
<p>I made the choice to pay off my mortgage because I&#8217;d done all that, and was left with what I call &#8220;the big what if?&#8221;.  I&#8217;m a 42 year old single woman and have only myself and my earning ability to rely on.  Yeah, I&#8217;m making good money now, but that&#8217;s not guaranteed in the future.  What if I&#8217;m layed off and can&#8217;t find another well-paying job &#8211; or any job! &#8211; for a long time?  What if something happens to my health and I can&#8217;t continue working like this?  What if I burn out and need or want to take a less demanding, lower paying, maybe part time job?  What if the thought of working until I&#8217;m 67 makes me want to scream and I want to retire early?</p>
<p>It made the most sense to me to kill the mortgage so I wouldn&#8217;t have to worry about a monthly payment should something bad happen.  And because now is when I&#8217;m making a good salary and bonus with no mortgage payment every month, my savings is increasing every month in leaps and bounds and I have a lot of investment options with plenty of time before retirement to build up an even bigger nest egg than is in my 401(k). I also now have the freedom to consider alternate careers in the future.  </p>
<p>The peace of mind, though, that&#8217;s what is priceless to me.  I will never have to pay someone else to have a home (except the taxman!), and all my net income is mine to do with what I want.  ALL of it.  Debt-free is a beautiful thing.</p>
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		<title>By: Pedro</title>
		<link>http://frugaldad.com/2009/02/24/should-i-pay-off-my-mortgage/comment-page-2/#comment-38693</link>
		<dc:creator>Pedro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Mar 2010 15:10:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frugaldad.com/?p=1810#comment-38693</guid>
		<description>Bren, 
See my post #91 above. In your case, your closing costs are  1.455% of your loan amount (4 / 275).

Your interest rate reduction is 0.75% (5.375 - 4.625).

So, it will take you roughly 
(APPROXIMATELY YA ONLINE NITPICKERS!) 
2 years (0.01455 / 0.0075) to get back to even. 

That is, after around 2 years, the amount you paid in closing costs will be equal how much you will have saved in interest with the new, lower interest rate
(whether you roll the closing costs into the loan amount or not).

Thereafter, the money you save on interest each month is gravy for you.  

What you have to decide is whether
1) the 2 year break-even point is short enough for you (in this case, &quot;shorter&quot; is better) and
2) how likely it is that interest rates will go lower in the next two years - thereby offering you a better deal.

I don&#039;t know the answer to either of those questions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bren,<br />
See my post #91 above. In your case, your closing costs are  1.455% of your loan amount (4 / 275).</p>
<p>Your interest rate reduction is 0.75% (5.375 &#8211; 4.625).</p>
<p>So, it will take you roughly<br />
(APPROXIMATELY YA ONLINE NITPICKERS!)<br />
2 years (0.01455 / 0.0075) to get back to even. </p>
<p>That is, after around 2 years, the amount you paid in closing costs will be equal how much you will have saved in interest with the new, lower interest rate<br />
(whether you roll the closing costs into the loan amount or not).</p>
<p>Thereafter, the money you save on interest each month is gravy for you.  </p>
<p>What you have to decide is whether<br />
1) the 2 year break-even point is short enough for you (in this case, &#8220;shorter&#8221; is better) and<br />
2) how likely it is that interest rates will go lower in the next two years &#8211; thereby offering you a better deal.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know the answer to either of those questions.</p>
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		<title>By: marci357</title>
		<link>http://frugaldad.com/2009/02/24/should-i-pay-off-my-mortgage/comment-page-2/#comment-38565</link>
		<dc:creator>marci357</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 03:44:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frugaldad.com/?p=1810#comment-38565</guid>
		<description>1.  How long will you be staying in the house is the first thing you have to figure out.  If it&#039;s only a few years, it is probably not going to pencil out.

2.  How long will it take to recover the $4000 ?  Do the math.

3.  You&#039;re only saving about 1/2 of a percent... not a big enticement to me... but may be to  you over the long haul.

4.  Find an amortization program and do the math.  That will tell you exactly what each one will cost you over the cost of the loan.

5.  Remember that the five years extra is not definite on the higher percentage loan.  You can pay a little bit extra each month and knock it down to 20 years also.

6.  what&#039;s the diffence in the monthly payment between the 275 @ the higher rate, and 279 at the lower rate?

7.  Once you do the math and KNOW what both plans entail, then figure out which one makes the most financial sense for the time frame you will be in the house, and goes best with your financial goals.

It&#039;s a personal decision :)   Just gather ALL the facts - do the math - and then make your decision!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1.  How long will you be staying in the house is the first thing you have to figure out.  If it&#8217;s only a few years, it is probably not going to pencil out.</p>
<p>2.  How long will it take to recover the $4000 ?  Do the math.</p>
<p>3.  You&#8217;re only saving about 1/2 of a percent&#8230; not a big enticement to me&#8230; but may be to  you over the long haul.</p>
<p>4.  Find an amortization program and do the math.  That will tell you exactly what each one will cost you over the cost of the loan.</p>
<p>5.  Remember that the five years extra is not definite on the higher percentage loan.  You can pay a little bit extra each month and knock it down to 20 years also.</p>
<p>6.  what&#8217;s the diffence in the monthly payment between the 275 @ the higher rate, and 279 at the lower rate?</p>
<p>7.  Once you do the math and KNOW what both plans entail, then figure out which one makes the most financial sense for the time frame you will be in the house, and goes best with your financial goals.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a personal decision <img src='http://frugaldad.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />    Just gather ALL the facts &#8211; do the math &#8211; and then make your decision!</p>
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		<title>By: Bren</title>
		<link>http://frugaldad.com/2009/02/24/should-i-pay-off-my-mortgage/comment-page-2/#comment-38530</link>
		<dc:creator>Bren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Feb 2010 23:32:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frugaldad.com/?p=1810#comment-38530</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m thinking of refinincing our home- we owe 275K with a 5.375 mortgage, 25 years left on a 30 year term.  Our new rate/terms are 4.625, 20 year term.  But, the fees to refinance, are about 4K, which we would roll back into the new loan, which will be appox 279K.  Is it a smart move to increase what I owe?  I guess the big savings are the 5 years of interest I won&#039;t be paying.  Thoughts?  Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m thinking of refinincing our home- we owe 275K with a 5.375 mortgage, 25 years left on a 30 year term.  Our new rate/terms are 4.625, 20 year term.  But, the fees to <a href="http://frugaldad.com/recommends/quickenloans" style="" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmouseover="self.status='http://frugaldad.com/recommends/quickenloans';return true;" onmouseout="self.status=''">refinance</a>, are about 4K, which we would roll back into the new loan, which will be appox 279K.  Is it a smart move to increase what I owe?  I guess the big savings are the 5 years of interest I won&#8217;t be paying.  Thoughts?  Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://frugaldad.com/2009/02/24/should-i-pay-off-my-mortgage/comment-page-2/#comment-37300</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 18:28:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frugaldad.com/?p=1810#comment-37300</guid>
		<description>@ Pedro

It&#039;s not an all or nothing proposal.  If the loan to value ratio is low (ie a house&#039;s current market value is $750k, with an outstanding loan of $250k), why am I going to tie up more equity in the home? Im confident I can earn more than 5% going forward (even less needed when you consider a 35% tax bracket).  Yes, home values and market return can fluctuate, - but long term returns are on my side.  We haven&#039;t even considered age, cash needs (college, etc), and tightening credit -- one solution doesn&#039;t fit all -- but for your overall argument, the trend is not your friend.  Also, they are not giving me access to &quot;their&quot; money, they are giving me access to &quot;your&quot; money (as a depositor socking your cash away in your 2% cd).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Pedro</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not an all or nothing proposal.  If the loan to value ratio is low (ie a house&#8217;s current market value is $750k, with an outstanding loan of $250k), why am I going to tie up more equity in the home? Im confident I can earn more than 5% going forward (even less needed when you consider a 35% tax bracket).  Yes, home values and market return can fluctuate, &#8211; but long term returns are on my side.  We haven&#8217;t even considered age, cash needs (college, etc), and tightening credit &#8212; one solution doesn&#8217;t fit all &#8212; but for your overall argument, the trend is not your friend.  Also, they are not giving me access to &#8220;their&#8221; money, they are giving me access to &#8220;your&#8221; money (as a depositor socking your cash away in your 2% cd).</p>
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		<title>By: Pedro</title>
		<link>http://frugaldad.com/2009/02/24/should-i-pay-off-my-mortgage/comment-page-2/#comment-37207</link>
		<dc:creator>Pedro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 14:35:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frugaldad.com/?p=1810#comment-37207</guid>
		<description>@Mike,

Since I&#039;m a sheepherding lemming, substituting sarcasm for reason is all I&#039;m capable of.

You ARE correct in noting that noting that comparing an institution&#039;s strategy to an individual&#039;s strategy has inherent flaws.

Institutions are in a much better position to pursue maximum expected value in the face of risk than individuals are.  

However, your recommendation that individuals arbitrage higher expected returns from the stock market against lower fixed interest rates is MORE risky than the strategy that banks use, not LESS.

If your strategy was complete and correct, professionals who &quot;do&quot; money all day every day for a living would never give you access to &quot;their&quot; money.  Yet for some reason they do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Mike,</p>
<p>Since I&#8217;m a sheepherding lemming, substituting sarcasm for reason is all I&#8217;m capable of.</p>
<p>You ARE correct in noting that noting that comparing an institution&#8217;s strategy to an individual&#8217;s strategy has inherent flaws.</p>
<p>Institutions are in a much better position to pursue maximum expected value in the face of risk than individuals are.  </p>
<p>However, your recommendation that individuals arbitrage higher expected returns from the stock market against lower fixed interest rates is MORE risky than the strategy that banks use, not LESS.</p>
<p>If your strategy was complete and correct, professionals who &#8220;do&#8221; money all day every day for a living would never give you access to &#8220;their&#8221; money.  Yet for some reason they do.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://frugaldad.com/2009/02/24/should-i-pay-off-my-mortgage/comment-page-2/#comment-37125</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jan 2010 19:48:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frugaldad.com/?p=1810#comment-37125</guid>
		<description>@ Pedro

Sarcasm isn&#039;t a substitute for reasoning --- comparing an institution&#039;s strategy versus an individual&#039;s strategy is a flawed thought process.  If I have a loan to value ratio of 25%, would it be an intelligent decision to pay off the home?  If the value of the home is 30% of my overall net worth, would it be a smart move to pay off the home?  Big bad bank, right?  Don&#039;t be a lemming.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Pedro</p>
<p>Sarcasm isn&#8217;t a substitute for reasoning &#8212; comparing an institution&#8217;s strategy versus an individual&#8217;s strategy is a flawed thought process.  If I have a loan to value ratio of 25%, would it be an intelligent decision to pay off the home?  If the value of the home is 30% of my overall net worth, would it be a smart move to pay off the home?  Big bad bank, right?  Don&#8217;t be a lemming.</p>
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		<title>By: Steven</title>
		<link>http://frugaldad.com/2009/02/24/should-i-pay-off-my-mortgage/comment-page-2/#comment-36981</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2010 01:36:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frugaldad.com/?p=1810#comment-36981</guid>
		<description>What an interesting discussion, though most folks seem to be talking past each other.

No one has made the point that, in general, the best strategy for any investment return is diversification.  One&#039;s home equity is an investment, but concentrating 100% of one&#039;s wealth in that investment may not be a much better idea than leveraging it to the hilt to buy penny stocks.  A &quot;black swan&quot; can hit your home equity investment just as it can hit the stock or bond markets.

Also remember that mortgage interest is generally deductible, so for most of us the government is giving us a 25% - 40% (or more in some high-tax states) discount on the interest cost.

One must make some judgments about the near future and then diversify to avoid the worst cases and benefit from the most likely cases.  In my estimation, we are currently in a historically low period of interest rates, so a new 15-year mortgage at 4.5% is probably a good deal, provided one can find a place to park the money with an appropriate level of risk to one&#039;s taste.

But treating one&#039;s home as a wholly different kind of investment than any other is a mistake, albeit one that only bites now and then.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What an interesting discussion, though most folks seem to be talking past each other.</p>
<p>No one has made the point that, in general, the best strategy for any investment return is diversification.  One&#8217;s home equity is an investment, but concentrating 100% of one&#8217;s wealth in that investment may not be a much better idea than leveraging it to the hilt to buy penny stocks.  A &#8220;black swan&#8221; can hit your home equity investment just as it can hit the stock or bond markets.</p>
<p>Also remember that mortgage interest is generally deductible, so for most of us the government is giving us a 25% &#8211; 40% (or more in some high-tax states) discount on the interest cost.</p>
<p>One must make some judgments about the near future and then diversify to avoid the worst cases and benefit from the most likely cases.  In my estimation, we are currently in a historically low period of interest rates, so a new 15-year mortgage at 4.5% is probably a good deal, provided one can find a place to park the money with an appropriate level of risk to one&#8217;s taste.</p>
<p>But treating one&#8217;s home as a wholly different kind of investment than any other is a mistake, albeit one that only bites now and then.</p>
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		<title>By: Pedro</title>
		<link>http://frugaldad.com/2009/02/24/should-i-pay-off-my-mortgage/comment-page-2/#comment-36965</link>
		<dc:creator>Pedro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 20:35:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://frugaldad.com/?p=1810#comment-36965</guid>
		<description>@Mike

You smooth smoothie you. You have figured out that the path to wealth is paved with leveraged assets.

Good thing those rubes down at the bank who HOLD your mortgage are such simpletons.  Imagine.  If they were as sharp as you, they wouldn&#039;t lend you THEIR money.  They&#039;d go for the higher rates of return in the other investments you list and leave you out of the loop. 

Instead, they lend their capital to you so that you can go for the gold while they settle for measly mortage interest.  Gosh, I don&#039;t know WHY they behave like that, do you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Mike</p>
<p>You smooth smoothie you. You have figured out that the path to wealth is paved with leveraged assets.</p>
<p>Good thing those rubes down at the bank who HOLD your mortgage are such simpletons.  Imagine.  If they were as sharp as you, they wouldn&#8217;t lend you THEIR money.  They&#8217;d go for the higher rates of return in the other investments you list and leave you out of the loop. </p>
<p>Instead, they lend their capital to you so that you can go for the gold while they settle for measly mortage interest.  Gosh, I don&#8217;t know WHY they behave like that, do you?</p>
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