That’s the issue…. too many people want the instant glamour of a new fancy home instead of the lower cost, but work involved, home. Too many people want are afraid to work for what they want and pay cash in the deal, instead of going for the “Easy” way out of getting credit and a big mortgage on more than they can afford.

Used to be a family could be raised in a really small home – but today people look at them like they are cruel and unusual…. Why did that happen??? When did things go from being “Enough” and “Making Do”, to having to have it ALL right NOW! That’s the greed, and that’s the problem!

In the meantime, I teach the grandkids,(by example) as I taught their parents, to do for themselves, to make do, to use it up, to not be wasteful, to be frugal, to grow a little garden, to can, sew, dehydrate, to pressure cook down the bones after butchering, to save the broth for stews, and to make scrapple with the trimmings and broth…. As my kids say, and my Grandkids are learning, we use everything except the squeal

I can’t grow food as efficiently as a farmer. I use my job to create income to pay the farmer for his food.

I can’t produce electricity or clean running water as efficiently as the utilities. I use my income to pay the utilities for their services.

I don’t have enough money laying around to purchase a home outright, so I trade a future portion of my income stream to a bank for capital now to purchase a real asset.

If we all tried to do everything on our own as a whole we would all be less efficient. Use loans as access to capital as a tool (like we use money to purchase food) and use it wisely. Just be sure you never allocate all of your income stream to expenditures.

I have been posting on self reliance and self sufficiency for almost a year now, and have warned of the “newly frugal DIYer” who will quickly forget the lessons they should have learned from this economic storm . . . nice post!

You talked about self-reliance in your post, and I’m just wondering if you have read Richard Proenneke’s book “One Man’s Wilderness.” There’s a documentary, too (“Alone in the Wilderness”). It’s fascinating! I am amazed at how much he did on his own in Alaska. Talk about self-reliance! If you and your kids haven’t seen it, consider renting it. I think you’d enjoy it.

an example: before drug companies were allowed to advertise medicine on TV, how many people in this country do you think had restless leg syndrome? one day your are watching TV because it is raining outside and you are restless and bored and the next thing you know you gotta go to the doctor to get a pill because you noticed your legs wouldn’t sit still because you are going stir crazy…must be restless leg syndrome.

Housing has been the same way. I have never bought a house before,but I have felt the urge to with the idea that “real americans own homes.” and Bill Clinton was nice enough to have given me the choice of committing what would have been financial suicide…good thing I thought twice, unlike so many others. And the governemnt doesnt learn. just the other day i saw Barney frank talking about how we need to ease credit requirements to get people buying houses again…these people are insane.

But I don’t blame the availability of credit so much as the prevalence of greed as a driving force in most, if not all, industries and businesses today. And the root of many of our financial problems. Sorry, personal spending in unhealthy ways should be no surprise in a society where some people are so over-compensated and others so inadequately compensated that you begin to understand how the frustration fuels poor choices. The average citizen in debt takes a pounding even if he accrued it for legit reasons (healthcare!) but the A-H running companies who steals from customers and other empolyees. Well, he just gets richer (All those folks who ran companies into the ground, so that millions lost jobs? Not only should they have been fired, they should have been forced to pay others for their stupidity and greed. They are thieves as much as the folks at Enron or Madoff. They “stole” people’s lives and well-being and futures.)

(I won’t even comment on unnecessary overspending in the government. At least we’re not still funding those Fwhatever planes. Now, if we didn’t have all the war funding!)

Greed is at the heart of over-pricing/over-charging on all levels, whether it’s bankers awarding bonuses to staff at companies that are only still around because we, the people, funded a bailout. Still fuming over this. Rank and file get screwed left and right and are out of jobs forever and greedy bastards at companies laugh their asses off as they cash in/out for performance that would get us plain folks fired.)

Same thing with housing. Ridiculous prices for years again due to people buying/selling as investments, not as making a place to live and creating a community.

Profit is good and healthy but there is such a thing as too much, when it’s at the expense of others.

It isn’t just the credit cards (banks) that are raking it in at the expense of the society.

Debt, credit, etc. are not inherently bad. It’s about how they are misused, abused, etc. And how people are literally set up to fail.

And the exorbitant cost of things, even basics, is making it impossible for the average person to have even a basic quality of life.

I’m old enough to remember when healthcare insurance was readily available and affordable and getting medical care did not require going into debt (Medical care is the biggest cause of a lot of credit card debt.) When you worked and could survive.

Given the nature of society today, and the rampant consumerism, at all socio-economic levels (it isn’t just the wealthy or middle class), it’s next to impossible to be self-reliant beyond a point.

Fact is, we’re all interdependent, so we need to rein in the greedy and out only for themselves at the expense of others. That includes our so-called government (and I agree, both parties are guilty of plenty of bad judgment calls. It’s always been that way.)

We need a real moral shift to real accountability, but when our government keeps funding the thieves, that’s not likely to happen.

I’m afraid your post just reminded me of all that is wrong in our current society, government, that can’t be changed until more people literally rise up and say: We’re mad as hell and we’re not taking it anymore.

Seriously, we need a true revolt in this country because our government no longer serves the needs of the average citizen. It’s still all about big business, who could care less about the citizens. It only wants their money.

Greed. Greed. Greed. Self-interest. Whether doctor, banker or real estate agent. It only takes a relative few people in a society to make it hell for all the rest of us. That’s what we’re seeing now.

I’m tired of seeing hardworking people struggling while fools, thieves and worse take the money and run.

The one good thing about what’s happening now is that a lot more people are beginning to literally feel the pain of having less and doing with less, that most of the rest of us always knew (as a friend put it, hell, we’ve always lived frugally. We never had a choice. This is not new.) and maybe, just maybe, might think twice about how they conduct business. But unlikely. Those who care only about themselves, well, they still will.

And the world will continue to rely on those individuals and some organizations, nonprofit, who try to help where they can. Alas, they have run out of money and resources, too.

By the way, life in the past? Not so easy, and that self-reliance came at a huge cost.

You need a degree of basic comfort so you can create, contribute and grow a society. That doesn’t happen when we’re all in fear of being out on the street at any time. Which is now the case for millions who never ever thought it “could happen to them.” There are no safety nets anymore. Period.

I do believe that debt and peoples’ desire for more has helped grow the economy to where it is today, but is that sustainable? Can any population continue to have everything they want no matter the cost? I for one am no longer willing to support the economy through my personal debt. Every day, I see ways in which my life would be better without it. Every day I look for ways to live within my means.

As I’m writing this, there’s a MasterCard commercial on the tv downstairs…