Hey, I guess it’s just pocket change if you can pull the shade and stay above it all.

Cheers!

Tony Robbins said something about the fact that when we give, we are telling our subconscious minds that there is more than enough for us- and it things tend to manifest themselves that way from such a place of being.

Sounds kind of woo woo but it does seem to go that way. People that only focus on paying bills usually only go that far, and those that give usually have more than enough.

Also, for any so inclined, it’s actually possible to build a charitable business that supports you. Nope- I’m not kidding. You might want to see this. http://businessintobenevolence.com

How do we stop someone from putting forward the sorts of words that Simon put forward without saying something about it that reflects poorly on him, Marcus? Tell us another way to handle it that gets the job done and we will take you up on it.

The difference is a difference in motive. I am saying these things not because I enjoy seeing Simon look bad but because there is no other way to protect this community from this sort of thing. Simon is doing what he is doing for a very different motive.

If we send a clear message to Simon that this sort of thing will not be tolerated, then it comes to an end. Problem solved. If we fail to send a clear message, this goes on and on and on. Who benefits from that? Simon? Anyone?

I have seen site moderators or communities take a strong stand and bring these things to a successful conclusion in no time. And I have seen site administrators and communities fail to act and thereby stretch these things out for a long time. I see zero benefit in stretching things out.

The blog is named “Frugal Dad.” If Simon has something to say that relates to the questions examined at the blog, I think it is fair to say that everyone here would be glad to hear him say what he has to say. If he has some other issue that causes him such emotional angst that he cannot bear not to bring it up even at inappropriate times, I think it is fair to say that that is a problem that he needs to work out on his own time and on his own dime. It’s not blog business. It doesn’t belong here.

Rob

It’s hypocritical to keep attacking people while claiming that personal attacks don’t belong here.

It’s true that I post regularly at the board linked to above.

You know what? I have learned important things from my friends the Goons. I talk about that on my podcasts often. I was good friends with most of these people in the days before I posted about the error that the fellow made in his retirement study. Most of these people are smart people. Just because they often post abusively nowadays doesn’t mean that they have nothing of value to offer. My thought is that the thing to do is to accept the good that they are willing to put forward and to do all that you can to discourage them from putting forward the nasty stuff (which hurts everyone, including the Goons themselves).

People are not all one thing, all black or all white. People are a mix. That’s true of each and every one of us. Communities should help people to become their best. Please take a look at the words that I direct to Simon above. I do not tell him that we do not want him around. I point out that he helps us when he shares his views re charitable giving by adding one more viewpoint to the mix. Then I go on to discourage him in the strongest possible terms from giving in to those dark impulses that cause him to want to post abusively.

Some people think that internet communities are “free” to join. I don’t buy it. There is usually no financial price to be paid. But an internet community is comprised of humans and that means that there are responsibilities entailed in engaging in interactions with them. My view is that we all should be making an effort to send signals to our fellow community members that we want our communities to encourage the good stuff and discourage the bad stuff.

I have lots and lots of experience both with some of the most wonderful communities on the face of the internet and with some of the internet posters most determined to destroy as many wonderful communities as possible in the short amount of time given to them to do so in this life. Other people are of course entitled to hold other opinions. But I think that I can say in all fairness that my views on these questions are informed by a great deal of hard-won experience. And the views stated in this post are indeed my sincere views.

Simon could become a positive contributor here. But my strong sense is that he is not going to make it without our help. We need to send him a signal as to what sort of behavior is acceptable and what sort of behavior is not if we want to see Simon show us his better side. I will do what I can but I obviously do not possess the influence here to get this job done on my own. Each community member influences what happens by how he or she responds to the circumstances placed in front of us.

I care about the Goons. That’s why I talk things over with them regularly and try to learn from them and try to help them learn from me. And that’s why I try to make clear to them the lines that apply when they elect to contribute to a community like this one. You don’t show that you care about someone by ignoring his or her bad behavior. You show that you care about someone by working to bring out his or her best.

That’s my sincere belief re this matter, in any event.

Rob

I spent a few hours at that site and Rob is one of the top posters there. I also see where Rob posts links to new blogs he has found on that board – pretty dumb if Rob truly thinks that site is organizing a conspiracy. Mostly I saw people joking around about Rob’s inconsistencies, vagueness and verbosity. I also saw where Rob says he has talked to “numerous” lawyers to try to force bloggers to stop censoring him, yet Rob admits in another post that he deletes so many comments from his own blog that he can’t keep track of them all. Overall, an amusing if pointless read.

I like the idea of giving to a charity in small increments, I did this by DD for many years but had to stop for a while due to financial issues… I will restart again soon.

The personal nature of the attacks in Simon’s posts above tell the tale. Simon of course has every right to share his thoughts on charitable giving. He helps us all out by doing that. He has zero right to use this blog as a means for him to advance malicious attacks on the community members who congregate here. The personal attack posts are trash posts and from time to time responsible people need to take out the trash.

If there are any here who have doubts that there are humans in this world so twisted inside that they would spend seven years of their life energy carrying out smear campaigns against a group of people whose only “crime” is that they posted honestly on the numbers that others use for retirement planning, here is a link to the discussion board at which the smear campaigns against the various boards and blogs that permit honest posting are organized (this board is owned by the individual who got the numbers wrong in his retirement study):

http://www.s152957355.onlinehome.us/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl

The personal attack stuff does not belong here. No way, no how. It’s not a close call. it degrades us all for us to even have to discuss such questions. Frugal Dad should be protecting us from this garbage.

Rob